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王子Prince去世 [复制链接]

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11#

再听听《Let's Go Crazy (LP Version)》,这是我20多年前在磁带中听到很熟的,名字已忘了,现在又找回来了。http://music.163.com/#/song?id=21393058
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12#

刚刚听了……
最后编辑爱碟子肥猪猪 最后编辑于 2016-04-23 13:42:05
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13#

prince不仅那几张“口水专辑”(无贬义哦,厚厚)里有好歌。他的好作品实在太多了,主要是他把握“音乐动机”和“旋律素材”的能力太强,随便一个灵感就能“流”出一首好歌,音乐素材的发展太自然了。 我随便贴一首,《the morning papers》...

http://www.kuwo.cn/yinyue/1487329/
最后编辑小清新 最后编辑于 2016-04-23 15:11:29
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14#

悼念下这位前MJ、Lionel Richie时代的曾经的一哥!
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15#

原帖由 小清新 于 2016/4/22 19:18:00 发表
恕我直言,在我的主观感受里,在“纯音乐”层面,米高基逊与prince相比,前者就像个“三好学生团干部”一样本本分分、缺乏才情想象力。

在主流流行乐坛,prince绝对是才华盖世,不是几首“名曲”、更不是一堆庸俗奖项所能评述的。那喷薄而出的艺术创造力、那人生(肉身)在世之喜悦与哀愁的抵达性揭示,毫无二流人物那种借助于智识和思想来表达艺术的“努力感”。 当音乐就是音乐的时候,音乐才是“音乐”。p

我想说两点。
第一点,我也认为王子有才华。不过要证明,可能很难,要对他的音乐进行分析。
第二点,就是思想和艺术的关系。象文艺复兴的艺术,主要其实就是新帕拉图哲学在艺术上的时代精神的反映。
最明显的就是米开朗基罗以及波提切利。他们的艺术都表现了这样一种思想吧。他们制作以基督教为题材的艺术,但事实上,他们在作品中赋予的精神却是希腊的。
米开朗基罗以及波提切利都可以说是深受新帕拉图哲学思想影响的。不过他们在艺术上的地位也是非常高的。
现代艺术中,象表现主义,不管是绘画还是音乐,其实也是有思想基础的。艺术也不是凭空产生的。
尼采的思想、弗洛伊德的精神分析学说以及斯泰纳的神秘主义对其影响巨大。
音乐是使人生活得更有意义的方式之一。

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16#

第一点不说了。

第二点。楼主你说的意思太多了,我没法一点点择开了回复,我只能简单说几句。

我说的二流人物是指“艺术不够,思想来凑”那种人和作品,不是说某个艺术家脑子里是否有某种思想。 一流的艺术家,无论他有没有思想,他出来的作品是一流的艺术,而不是二流三流的艺术混合上无论几流(哪怕是一流)的思想。

文艺复兴的话题,说来话长,先不说了。关于古代艺术(包括文艺复兴)的鉴赏,我都持上一段的观点。

现代艺术,最遭人诟病的一点就是,概念化的东西太多了。我不是说现代艺术都不行,但是大部分现代艺术是“思想大于艺术”,或者说“概念大于艺术”。我不是针对表现主义来说的,我是泛指整个现代艺术。

尼采、弗洛伊德、神秘主义等等,这些话题太具体了,我没精力说。我只能说,楼主太在意这些思想史、艺术史方面的东西了。这些东西对鉴赏和理解艺术的帮助太有限,有时候甚至是负面的。

如果能相信艺术是“凭空”产生的,或者说,如果能感受到艺术是纯粹灵感的降临,对于鉴赏艺术似乎是更有益的。

当然,楼主也许不太能接受我说的这些。我说的这些与木心之流的审美思路差不多。不过我印象楼主对木心的共鸣有限,把他当作“入门书”来读了。所以我估计楼主也会对我说的这些有所保留。见仁见智,无所谓的。我的想法就是上述这些。
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17#

我对木心印象还可以的。他对艺术的看法受西方和美国影响。他认为艺术不能是思想的图像,但他也认为艺术有思想基础的。

他也认为对西方现代艺术产生很大影响的是叔本华,尼采,弗洛伊德以及帕格森。
对艺术的看法,木心认为哲学,思想不能凌驾于艺术之上,但同时他也认为艺术有思想基础的。我觉得木心说得很不错的。对兄台对艺术的看法,我也认为很有道理的。其实我可能更强调思想基础,而你更强调思想不能凌驾于艺术之上,艺术应该有它自己的意义。当然,我仍然有一些疑问的,比如:

谈到艺术“凭空”产生,艺术纯粹灵感的降临,这些可能属于弗洛伊德的学说范围呢。也是有思想基础支持的。

象米开朗基罗,拉斐尔,其实他们受古希腊精神影响很大的。比如拉斐尔的《雅典学院》。。。。。。

等等

总之,思考这些问题有时也觉得很伤脑筋的,不过,探讨当然是有益的。
音乐是使人生活得更有意义的方式之一。

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18#

嗯,楼主说的不错。小弟因为很热爱prince,这两天很悲痛,所以在这个帖子里面的表达比较激烈,楼主见谅。

谈到艺术“凭空”产生,艺术纯粹灵感的降临,这些可能属于弗洛伊德的学说范围呢。也是有思想基础支持的。
=====================================
小弟的艺术观是神圣/神秘一路的。所以,我所谓的“纯粹灵感的降临”,指的是,“艺术之神(姑且用这么一个恶俗的词汇吧)”通过某个凡人作为媒介,把那不可思议的美和艺术降临下来。当某个凡人在某时某地被“神”选中的时候,灵感会降临在他身上,让他行(艺术的)神迹于世间。


象米开朗基罗,拉斐尔,其实他们受古希腊精神影响很大的。比如拉斐尔的《雅典学院》。
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楼主不能只强调某些具有典型思想史特征的例子,大部分艺术没有这么大的思想史特征。而且,具体到文艺复兴巨匠,就希腊思想这个资源而言,希腊思想在他们生命的“正在进行时状态”中的感受,与我们后人的事后诸葛亮式的艺术史感受,是完全不同的。(他们不知道未来的历史,也就不甚知道他们自己“其实”在历史中干着什么)。 此思想非彼思想。对咱们来说是思想,对他们来说是灵魂的驱动力本身,不是咱们这种审视式的“思想”。这是最重要的。如果进入不了他们的“正在进行时状态”,就不太是艺术审美而是某种思想史、艺术史的审视了。后者不是坏事,确实是智识和修养之事,但是到底与艺术审美隔着一层。
最后编辑小清新 最后编辑于 2016-04-25 19:58:31
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19#

其实,除了您两位提到的“艺术/神秘化”或者“思想/概念化”,还有有没有第三种情形?年轻的时候思考这类问题的时候也总喜欢去挖掘创作者的内心的深层的东西。年纪越大,越来越以平常心对待这些,也许创作者在创作的时候根本就没有那么多复杂的想法,纯粹就是生活的触动所引发的激情而已。从这个角度看,柴米油盐酱醋茶,大俗及大雅,“生活化”是否才是最根本的因素?
看两位讨论有感,胡诌两句,呵呵。
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20#

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